It’s a diesel powered electric car point:
The fossil fueled electric car…
It’s becoming a joke all around the world — the EVs in Australia powered by dirty diesel. But what’s the difference? Most EV’s in Australia are running on fossil fuel — the generators are just hidden behind longer extension cords. (Ones that carry 240,000V). EV’s on our grid are running on 80% fossil fuels every day.
The sign on the charger above says “Nullarbor” — the vast treeless and grid-free centre of Australia — but this is actually a test site in Perth (the trees were the giveaway).
The 3,000 kilometer trip across the Nullarbor from Perth to Adelaide is such an achievement for an EV that it’s practically a news story each time one makes it. Electric Car owners carry a chip about not being able to drive across the country like any real car owner could. So Jon Edwards, a retired engineer from Perth, set up this test site in his backyard. He wanted to know if it could be a realistic stop-gap for our far remote roads.
To me, this looks like a chain of efficiency losses going from diesel to mechanical to electrical to battery to mechanical, but Edwards tested it with ten friend’s cars last December and estimates it works out slightly better on fuel use than just driving a diesel. Readers can check out all his calculations and tables on his page — at a glance it’s a respectable effort. He is an engineer. The charger is a Tritium Veefil 50kW DC (a big fast one) and took 9 hours to charge all 10 cars and used 108L of fuel. Good for fuel. Bad for time. (The 6,600km return trip across the Nullabor took 13 days in case you were wondering, though they were not in a race).
There’s a good reason EV’s are only 0.2% of all new Australian car purchases — with vast distances, a fragile grid, expensive electricity and heavy towing loads. Plus these fast chargers are like adding “20 houses” to our grid, so will cripple the system or require billions of dollars of infrastructure costs. The dumbest thing is that as long as they run off fossil fuels, they’ll probably increase our CO2 emissions, doing the exact opposite of what they’re supposed to be doing, but yet perversely helping plants grow. Their big environmental benefit being mainly achieved by failing to do what they are intended to do.
Good for Jon Edwards for financing his own experiment. but there was one funny moment when he mentioned tax:
…he tells The Driven that driving to Adelaide and back in an electric car, “I felt like a third class citizen.”
“I’m a tax paying citizen and I’m driving an EV, why haven’t we got infrastructure to service us?” he says.
…and the first commenter, Pedro, reminded him that EV owners don’t pay the fuel taxes that maintain the roads the EV’s drive on.
But, hey, he’s in the comments there explaining himself. Give him points, just please don’t give him more of our taxes.
Lots of commenters there wonder why he didn’t use a solar powered battery pack:
Jon Edwards replied:
To close the gap from Clare in SA to Perth in WA, 14 stations approx 200 km apart are needed to create a highway eVs can use. Until the highway is created the eVs crossing will remain at less than 10 per year.. a number that governments, businesses and investors can not get excited about. So in my humble view the way to get 14 stations in place to create a highway – is to assemble 14 ChargePods and stick them out there. Ideally a smart government would offer a grant to each location to purchase the unit. Then each location would own the asset, fuel and maintain the asset, and with time make some money from the asset. But for the growing eV community with an instant highway in place.. guess what happens next ? Yep the eV traffic will increase and the business case for more green solutions can be calculated. So from my perspective even though we have proven equivalent, its not about fuel consumption, its about creating a highway that currently has no business case to support it. And before any reader says “but why wouldn’t you go solar?”.. Calculate the cost of say a 300 kwhr battery (allowing for losses it may charge 2 x 100 kwhr Teslas in the same day) , a 60 kw inverter, 50kw eV charger, say 100kw of panels, all the controls, battery management system, electrical work, containers, installation labour, concrete, cranes, commissioning, accommodation, insect repellent, sunblock and bottled water.. at Caiguna in WA..for a 2 car per day system that needs 3 days to recharge…then compare that to dropping off a ChargePod with a Hiab as has just been done. (check out Plugshare Caltex at Jurien Bay WA.) and have a 24 car per day system everyday.. Its about creating an instant highway, then green it up when the numbers stack up.
There’s a reason only 10 EV’s cross the Nullabor a year.
h/t Another Ian
Other posts on EV’s:
- Another way to destroy a grid: add a million electric vehicles
- Inconvenient Bill: Electric cars may lower your fuel bill, but make electricity, jobs, lifestyle, unaffordable
- Save the world with internal combustion engines
- Holden Volt $2.50 to fill? But it costs more to run than a big SUV
- Each electric car could add costs of $2000 per year for “our” electricity network
- Why electric cars are worse for the environment
- Electric cars are already causing some grid failures in Australia
- Enthusiastic man in EV saves 6700L of fuel but loses 3 years
- Electric cars are perfect for socialists: Labor plan boosts Big-Gov, but worse for CO2, pollution, coal use, and grid
- Mission Impossible: “100% renewable”. Greens ban coal and cars by 2030. Kiss goodbye to $30b and life as we know it?
As soon as you talk about the gubbnmnt being involved, I know it’s going
to cost ME (and you) heaps….
And on the crossing from West to East you will still
need to get the diesel to each station…..
Hey, maybe the EVs could take some diesel to each pod!
/sarc
461
It only makes sense to do this. It would only take about 7 gallons of diesel to fully charge the high capacity, 75 KW-hour Model S battery pack. I’ll bet they can even use mostly tax-free ‘red’ diesel.
There’s about 55 horsepower hour per gallon which corresponds to about 35 KW-hours, and with an optimized diesel motor/generator, you can get over 10 KW-hours per gallon. This is why optimized diesel motor/generators that are sufficient for maintaining nominal highway speeds should be standard equipment for all electric drive cars. Power demands beyond what the motor/generator can provide are supplied by a smaller battery pack which is also used for stop and go traffic. If only the ignorant masses can get past their obsession with CO2 emissions …
162
That sounds like a hybrid to me. Didn’t Toyota try to pretend one of their hybrids was an EV “with petrol backup”?
180
Yes, there have been attempts to do this, but as I said, people need to get over their obsession with CO2 emissions. The rationalization many use to justify a hybrid or electric car is because they ignorantly believe they are reducing their CO2 footprint in the name of climate change.
The existence proof that electric drive with an on-board fossil fuel driven generator is the way to go are locomotives.
71
The current 2019 Geneva Motor Show (see numerous YouTube) highlights this “technology.” Nissan et al. all producing vehicles with smaller petrol engines generating electrical power to drive an electric motor drive train. Don’t get it myself, but thrilled that petrol will clearly be around for a while longer, unless the demented corporatist globalist Left zealots actually succeed in dismantling the social fabric and wider society.
42
The reason it makes sense is that by adding a battery to supply peak and low power demand, you can get much better mileage by converting gasoline into electricity driving the wheels then by driving the wheels directly with a gasoline engine. There are several reasons for this. Electric power generation can use an engine that’s highly optimized for a single RPM. The benefits of a hybrid in stop and go traffic are preserved. Computer controlled electric motors are very efficient at turning Joules of electric power into torque and motion.
50
I read this post Jo.
Your argument is clear and easy to understand.
By contrast Jon Edwards is so convoluted
And lacking in common sense
I gave up after about line 3.
But one thing is clear.
He want’s Non EV people to pay
More
More
More
To the folk with these EV toys.
312
And by the wat the Australian Brainwashing Corporation has lost the PC script ( momentarily ? )
It is reporting that the power regulator will take the 4 windy power companies to court
Over their part in our system black day in 2016.
Because they failed to have the gear to keep the system going !
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-07/regulator-legal-action-against-energy-companies-over-sa-blackout/11390400
141
Interesting Bill. There are many inaccuracies in that report, especially about the actual timeline of events and actually what triggered the blackout. That the AER now seeks to take the Renewable companies to court will hopefully re-focus back on their part in this debacle.
100
Graeme I’m just amazed that the ABC
actually reported the news of this issue.
31
This seems to me to be almost a test case as to who should pay the cost of the systems needed to protect the electricity grid from the problems caused by wind.
The specific here are only about how they respond to over-voltage, but the principle is who pays for the cost of protecting against “irregular” supply. If the network can shift that cost onto individual operators, then it’s only a short jump from there to get wind generators to pay for their own backup – which would send shivers down the spine of all those making money from the public this way.
81
“AGL blames ‘catastrophic storm’, not breaches”
No doubt the climate change believers blamed climate change for the catastrophic storm, which took away the “renewable” power which is supposed to stop climate change
51
Helped by widely exaggerated wind speeds. Turbines shut down at 90km. an hour to protect the blades, which seems to have been one cause. 220 km. per hour would have blown those blades into the next State.
A picture at the time of pylons blown over showed them as intact but with the concrete footing out of the ground. Inadequate footing (althought it worked for 50 years) with heavy rain for some time saturating the ground.
20
Reeks of ‘Atlas Shrugged’.
Pure replay.
The end is therefore predictable.
20
‘o me, this looks like a chain of efficiency losses going from diesel to mechanical to electrical to battery to mechanical, but Edwards tested it with ten friend’s cars last December and estimates it works out slightly better on fuel use than just driving a diesel.’
Im not sure hes comparing apples with apples, more like apples with bananas. Looks ok at a glance but my initial instinct says it is less efficient on
fossilhydrocarbon fuel to go from generator powered charger to battery. So which diesel cars did he compare to? depends on how you drive that diesel, and probably the electric as well!Of course hes a beloved EV owner with his ‘smart’ toy, what would you expect, Im sure hes a ‘believer’ too.
151
And I’m sure Jon Edwards just did the initial, quick charge. I wonder how subsequent charges work out.
50
Was also wondering where he was able to obtain a spare charging station and diesel genset from.
51
As I understand it, the calculation ignores both getting the diesel to each generator and building and maintaining each generator. By the time you add in a person driving out say once a month to these remote stations, the amount of diesel required goes above just using diesel in the first place.
80
Yes, transport of the diesel will make the whole system totally inefficient. The truck must also return empty. Silly people.
61
Yes, exactly, and as commenters point out below, all the sites need to be duplicated to have a back up. What do you do if you turn up and there’s a queue, or worse, the one outlet for 200km is broken?
Nice to see you pop in Patrick. :- )
70
Redistribution of wealth by force is expensive in democrazies. You have not counted ALL the government employees that made this happen. Their salaries alone far outweigh the cost of ALL fuels.
361
“Socialism masquerading as environmentalism”
Prime Minister Abbott
2015
361
That’s one of the reasons they got rid of him.
270
I’m not up with your merry-go-round politricksters and move ’em in, move ’em out PMs, but according to yesterday’s truth, Australia says it’s committed to addressing climate change:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/396079/australia-says-it-s-committed-to-addressing-climate-change
“Under the Paris Agreement, Australia is committed to cutting
emissions per capitalife expectancy by 50 percent by 2030 and Mr Hawke, who is in Vanuatu [said] Australia was abiding by this”. Ouch.Vanuatu this week, Tuvalu next week – these shysters sure do enjoy the perks of international travel and overseas flights and
shitting inimpacting other people’s backyards…170
In round numbers, USD values used, the whole solar panel only kit would be about $200,000 plus installation and integration.
Installation and integration costs at a single location, are in the region of USD $1 / watt, so about USD $100,000.
So, let’s add in the additional 13 charging stations for another $214,500
Let’s not forget 14 lengths of transmission line at 200 km each (125 US Miles each) at a cost of USD $150,000 /mile for overhead distribution at 11 kv, is oh, gee, that’s USD $ 262,500,000.
The highway/roadway costs are not included.
I left out any substations and switchgear as this is ridiculous enough as it is.
Thus for a bargain price of USD $300 Million you could charge 2 cars per day.
Reference links may be posted if anyone should like them.
350
If one simply built 14 complete installations with panels, batteries, charger, inverter, etc, it would be much cheaper. Say USD 4 Million, total. No overhead distribution lines required.
That is equivalent to 17,750 diesel vehicle trips of 1500 miles per trip, fuel cost only.
141
And burn lots of diesel
To generate power
For the odd EV passing through..
Ohhhhhhh but what about all the evil CO2 Lance ?
The ER folk will fill their panties with worriting !
🙂
71
Thats rubbish Lance – I don’t want to pay for someon else’s electric car!
Make these people pay themselves for the cost of the power point installation.
GeoffW
100
That’s what he’s saying Geoff.
40
Well why didn’t he just hook up a trailer, load a generator and 200l tank of fuel and charge while driving, solves the whole problem!!!! 🙂
540
Exactly – hilarious!
210
I’m that what hybrid vehicles do?
110
Everyone in Australia will be driving a Prius by 2016 – Kevin Rudd told us so.
90
That was the idea since EVs are to be the only non human powered transport in the
slave campssustainable cities of UN Agenda 21 and 30.60
Spot on. Most don’t get it.
40
All that extra mess = much higher electricity consumption.
You’d need a lot more diesel.
70
Typo !
Mass not ‘mess’
10
That’s what a lot big ships and all train locomotives do nowadays…. Diesel electric. Diesel motors or steam turbines driving generators, electric motors turning low speed propellers or wheels 🙂 Makes sense when you are a huge container ship or goods train hauling massive cargoes…. less sense when you are a car where power to weight matters.
110
Large haul trucks have been diesel electric for about the past 35 years.
40
I wonder what happens when 1 station is out of commission for some reason (like running out of diesel). the hapless EV owner would be somewhat stranded.
Then there is the real price for the consumer, which I imagine would be much more than the cost of fuel, given the local monopoly on EV charging capability.
What does an EV owner actually do if they run out of power in the middle of nowhere, or even just a few metres past the length of the charging cable…? Can they actually be put in neutral and pushed, or are they so “electronic” that they can’t even manage that? (forgive me, I’m no mechanic, or electrical engineer!)
180
Well, that wouldn’t worry them. They’d be expecting the taxpayer to meet the costs of their emergency accommodation while the fuel tanker arrives. I’m sure the EVers would thoroughly enjoy an overnight stay at Caiguna oe better still Mundrabilla.
50
You left out the coffee shop & rest facilities.
Waiting even one hour on the Nullarbor without shade/water/etc is going to need several (battery-powered?) ambulances.
241
The idea would be to install these charging stations at existing roadhouses.
30
The Nullarbor has no existing road houses. That’s why it’s such a challenge.
82
Sure does, with golf holes at each of them for the Nullabor Links. I’m not saying they should have to cater for eVs though!
00
Ok, you had me on that one. My curiosity got the better of me.
I had to check along the road on Google maps. There are quite a few fuel stations along the road, though I can’t check the distances between each one. No golf courses but plenty of sand trap.
I looked more carefully at Mundrabilla Roadhouse. There are no power poles anywhere near the place, but they have lights. After some thinking, I figure that the shed to the west of the complex is a diesel generator shed. I don’t know for sure, but it seems most likely. So the entire Roadhouse is powered by diesel generator.
There’s also a little yellow plane parked at the service station. I guess he used the road to land. That’s funny 🙂
20
Yep, dont let REAL numbers get in the way of the great CON game.
I was going to note before liquid hydrocarbon fuel contains much more energy per litre than a battery. Battery, the energy is stored in ion separation, fuel stored in chemical bonds.
110
theRealUniverse:
That is the fundamental problem; hydrocarbon fuels contain about 8 – 13 times the energy by weight as the best Lithium battery. The average IC vehicle has to carry a heavy motor, heat exchanger (radiator), gearbox and differential, all of which lower efficiency.
An electric vehicle has lighter motor(s) and can avoid most of the other weight. An electric motor is also much more efficient at converting the stored energy into work, and has the advantage of some recovery of that energy by regenerative braking, which go some way to overcoming the shortage of energy.
Back in the 1920’s and 30’s various intrepid (or lunatic) drivers set off on journeys on the primitive roads to prove it could be done (e.g. Melbourne to Alice Springs in under a week in a baby Austin). I remember my parents setting off n the early 50’s in a FJ Holden with 3 small children & pet dog to go from Adelaide to Newcastle. It took 3 days to get to Sydney (stopping from memory at Donald, Holbrook) where a few days were spent recuperating.**Thence to Newcastle. The reverse trip was no quicker.
Since then IC cars have got bigger and heavier – partly for safety reasons/legislation and partly for things like radio/air conditioners etc.- yet their mileage has increased considerably from improvements in engine efficiency and mechanicals. Roads have improved a lot too.
But electric vehicles won’t be able to get such improvements because they start with high efficiency with little way to gain.
The current trips by electrics across the Nullarbor etc. are for publicity trying to convince people that electrics are the start of a new era, rather than a dead end.
**at the old Clifton Gardens hotel about to be demolished. Our pet dog had a ball, with the run of the hotel along with the owners pets.
41
You forgot the weight of the EV Battery.
60
“You forgot the weight of the EV Battery.”
Which doesn’t get “less heavy” (noticeably) as it discharges.
Unlike real fuel in a fuel tank.
20
Surely no transmission lines required Lance, as I believe Mr Edwards was proposing standalone charging setups. Also I would doubt that many would be required out there.
40
Or, in the alternative, one might choose to drive the 1500 miles in a diesel vehicle. At 20 Miles/ US Gallon, that’s 75 gallons of diesel, at the current price in Virginia of USD 3 / gallon, or USD 75 in fuel costs.
Hmm this is tough. 300 Million to charge 2 cars or $150 in fuel to perform the same travel.
220
oops. 75 x 3 = USD 225 in fuel costs. USD 450 to cover both vehicles.
note to self : proof read first.
230
No, I think that the equipment has been misidentified.
It seems to be a Solar Powered heat pump attached to a piston driven system that runs on hot air. Similar to a steam engine.
If you look closely you can see the cable running out of the box and presumably up to the solar array on top of the pole.
h/t PF.
KK
180
KK:
It is in W.A. Obviously the generator is run by Quokkas on a treadmill.
160
Sorry, how could I have been so mistaken.
See, we don’t have quokkas here so I couldn’t visualize it.
How many would fit inside that box, allowing for the treadmills and flywheel?
130
Here a quokka, there a quokka Oops! There a RSPCA Inspector.
160
it’s not just quokkas, it’s the flies and their wheel too, such cruelty!
120
Not enough quokkas, so would need to add some roos and a few wombats. Or perhaps a few hutches of rabbits – they can be plentiful out there in good seasons.
90
Could be charged from decomposing Kangaroo droppings.
60
Or from decomposing ‘roo road-kill.
You just need to be quick.
60
But what about the cost of piping the hot air from Parliament House to the Nullarbor charging station?
180
KK. Stop pulling the pser out of poor PF….
30
Old Keith.
OK.
10
Id rather see the millions squandered on The Worlds Most Pointless Vehicles(tm) redirected into useful hydrogen fuel research.
EVs are a WOFTAM of gargantuan proportions.
Thier current useless basis of existance are a political flight of fancy, that has zero scientific support.
EVs are a WOFTAM of gargantuan proportions.
100
You don’t want hydrogen in a car as fuel. It explodes spectacularly, and it embrittles everything it touches. It leaks through stainless steel. It’s expensive and difficult to contain.
It’s good for short term storage fuel situations only.
180
Greg, hydrogen can be easily made into a well behaved and energy dense substance by attaching it to carbon atoms in many possible combinations 🙂
290
Very true, we could call it…. oil?
210
Shhhh
160
Hide it – call it “Lio”
20
You forgot to add the clean up cost of all the Electric Cars which seem to self combust.
Could be a bit terminal for EcoHipsters if they step away from their vehicle[ & imported bottled drinking water] for a slash, 1/2 way across the Nully, only to turn around to see all those expensive Li Bats suffering a short……….
/sarc.
190
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/tesla-model-x-catches-fire-burns-for-4-hours-after-being-towed-2019-4?r=US&IR=T
“One Tesla owner in Pittsburgh has had bad luck with Tesla’s Model X SUV.
After briefly catching fire in February, the car caught fire once again about three hours after being towed to a repair shop in Monroeville on Wednesday, just outside of the city, according to CBS Pittsburgh, which first reported on the incident. Firefighters battled the blaze for about four hours before it went out, according to the report.
“It’s burned beyond recognition,” Doug Smeltz of Smeltz Auto Service told Business Insider, adding that the fire burnt a large hole in the shops parking lot.
“Wednesday’s fire is far from the first time a Tesla vehicle has made a headache for firefighters. In December, a Model S caught fire twice after suffering a flat tire in Los Gatos, California. That followed a similar fire in June in Los Angeles, in which British film director Michael Morris’ vehicle suddenly ignited.
In its information for first responders on its website, Tesla advises emergency service members to use the cars touch screen in order to activate “tow mode” and disengage the parking brake. The company also warns that it can take thousands of gallons of water to put out a battery fire.
“If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery,” the emergency response sheet reads. “It can take approximately 3,000 gallons of water (applied directly to the battery); establish sufficient water supply.”
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/26/firefighters-dropped-smoldering-bmw-i8-water-tank/
“Electric vehicle fires are a new reality that many first responders have been unfortunately forced to deal with on a trial-and-error basis. Some of the blazes have served as wakeup calls as to just how difficult these types of accidents can be to control. After a BMW i8 hybrid started smoking in the Netherlands recently, local firefighters demonstrated what might be one of the best, albeit one of the strangest, solutions.
“Posted by CarScoops, Brandweer Midden- en West-Brabant took to Facebook to post photos of an i8 that was dumped into a giant water vessel after the BMW started to catch fire. Via a Facebook translation, the caption detailed that the hybrid sports car had begun smoking while inside of a showroom. The car was moved outside before firefighters took initial containment steps. The ultimate procedure was to lift the car and drop it into what essentially looks like a scrap dumpster full of water.
“At face value, it all seems like a bit of odd overkill, but that’s far from the truth. We’ve told you previously — again just yesterday, in fact — that typical firefighting procedures involving vehicles with internal combustion engines cannot be used on electric vehicles. The i8 is not a fully electric vehicle, but it does contain similar parts in its hybrid powertrain setup.
“Electric vehicle fires are a new reality that many first responders have been unfortunately forced to deal with on a trial-and-error basis. Some of the blazes have served as wakeup calls as to just how difficult these types of accidents can be to control. After a BMW i8 hybrid started smoking in the Netherlands recently, local firefighters demonstrated what might be one of the best, albeit one of the strangest, solutions.
“Posted by CarScoops, Brandweer Midden- en West-Brabant took to Facebook to post photos of an i8 that was dumped into a giant water vessel after the BMW started to catch fire. Via a Facebook translation, the caption detailed that the hybrid sports car had begun smoking while inside of a showroom. The car was moved outside before firefighters took initial containment steps. The ultimate procedure was to lift the car and drop it into what essentially looks like a scrap dumpster full of water.
“At face value, it all seems like a bit of odd overkill, but that’s far from the truth. We’ve told you previously — again just yesterday, in fact — that typical firefighting procedures involving vehicles with internal combustion engines cannot be used on electric vehicles. The i8 is not a fully electric vehicle, but it does contain similar parts in its hybrid powertrain setup.
150
Burns at Smeltz Autos? I try to make stpuid stuff up , but reality beats me every time.
80
How about “Dr James D. Mangel, dentist”?
10
Two stories in a row about bat-schist crazy stuff.
Made my day.
Thanks.
170
It plainly less expensi=ve to pay any EV owners to NEVER drive their EVs ANYWHERE. Big savings there and well worth it! Just provide them with an ICE car to get around.
180
Are you suggesting that free Taxis would be cheaper?
Good idea, but too good to be adopted by politicians.
110
Free Taxis are cheaper than Tax Frees.
40
Perhaps the solution is to sell diesel generators on a trailor to charge the EV batteries whilst you drive across the outback, avoiding the need for long stops 😉
190
Serge:
Or perhaps one of those that an EV enthusiast told me “recharges itself while running”.
After the buzzing noise in my head subsided I realised he didn’t understand about regenerative braking.
110
Perpetual motion!
110
Yes as long as you only drive down hill. Gravity is free. 😀
DW quite correct, a nice perpetual mobile..
90
It pays to check before attempting to make a funny quip…
Some “EV’s”. …PHEVs to be precise,..Mitsi Outlander, GM Volt, Toyota Prius PiP, etc, ….can actually recharge their batteries whilst driving, In addition to regen braking !
10
I know, but I specified EV’s not hybrids.
00
Business plan adaptation – a new take on trailer hire –
Have generators on trailers for hire to ev owners either side of the Nullarbour road link
20
My 15 year old 1.9tdi will do 225-250km on 10.8l of diesel at a steady 70mph until the cows come home.
So much for progress.
220
Add to that the cost of all the processes involved to produce the generator and fuel, and deliver fuel to the generator.
130
‘Outrageous’! Proposed registration fee hike for electric cars in Illinois leaves progressives shocked by cost of progressivism …
Illinois might start charging $1,000 per year to own an electric vehicle: ‘It’s outrageous’
“A proposed hike in Illinois’ annual registration fee for electric vehicles — from $17.50 to $1,000 — is being called unfair by current EV owners. “
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-electric-vehicle-fee-illinois-20190509-story.html
… and not one weather event, extreme or otherwise, was, has, or will be prevented.
160
Yeah but look at what your averge Australian govt will hit you for ( dont forget registration is just *taxation* with a bit of token 3rd party insurance thrown in )
90
“Yeah but look at what your averge Australian govt will hit you for ( dont forget registration is just *taxation* with a bit of token 3rd party insurance thrown in )”
A LOT of 3rd party insurance.
40
Kiwis already have something like that for diesel, you pay road user charges/km, higher for heavy vehicles, rather than fuel tax direct. Therefore diesel is cheaper in NZ than here in AU.
Poor greenies dont want to pay for anything, just take away for them selves.
60
Proposed $1,000 Illinois electric vehicle registration fee called unfair by EV owners and manufacturers
00
I know that this has already been mentioned, but it’s worth repeating.
Jo:
“To me, this looks like a chain of efficiency losses going from diesel to mechanical to electrical to battery to mechanical”.
Virtue signalling is an expensive part of any politicians public image.
Thankfully they have road users and taxpayers to cover that burden for them.
KK
130
EV road tests should compare electricity recharging cost with petrol minus fuel tax to produce a fair comparison, and include the replacement of the EV battery pack cost as a fuel cost.
140
Surely you don’t mean having a meaningful engineering cost analysis.
Is that allowed?
140
Reminds me about the news story regarding an electric excavator machine that operates for a few short hours before needing recharging for many more hours than it operated, and on the construction site there was a diesel powered generator for that purpose.
120
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/20/zero-emissions-construction-digger-runs-out-of-power-in-2-hours-requiring-it-to-be-recharged-using-a-diesel-generator-for-8-hours/
130
Diesel and other liquid hydrocarbons are valuable transport fuels that should never be used to produce electricity except under exceptional circumstances.
Coal is one of the appropriate non-nuclear fuels (the other is natural gas) with to make electricity and from memory costs about 40 times less per kWh than diesel.
190
I can already picture an ALP+Greens federal government providing for “free” such a device for every household as their solution to reducing CO2 emissions by pushing electric cars onto the public. As Jo’s article above explains it does the exact opposite – it increases CO2 emissions. That won’t stop mor0nic leftists believing it’s the way to go.
170
That is all utter lunacy… I’m sorry, but he’s not all there.
90
Only him? The whole lot of them are “not there”. That includes those still in the LNP who believe we should keep reducing our emissions. They are all in effect have the goal to destroy our economy by pushing for more and more renewables. Go figure.
130
Too early to blame the LNP, they see economic depression looming.
On the question of EVs, a bullet train network would make electric vehicles redundant.
40
Actually the time to blame the LNP was way back in the past when Abbott was rolled by his own party. Things haven’t improved much since Morrison too over. He has to make many more changes to the LNP to get it back on track. Otherwise, crash and burn here we come.
80
Oh, if you are thinking of asking me if I believe Morrison will turn things around my answer is I don’t really know for sure since I am not a prophet but I have a mixed feeling of “not good” and “hopeful” (perhaps more like wishful thinking).
90
‘Otherwise, crash and burn here we come.’
We are a lucky country and our political leaders are idjits.
Economic deflation is becoming a real problem worldwide, but fortunately we are exporting more than we import. It will have to be Keynes with a twist, infrastructure, infrastructure and more infrastructure especially in the bush.
Renewable subsidies will go out the window and I’ll give the guvmet til Xmas to set things right, otherwise we can both put the boot in.
80
Gladys is the infrastructure queen.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/07/high-speed-trains-to-nowhere-australias-long-running-rail-fail
30
Yes, the bullet train subsidies would absorb all the EV subsidies quite easily
50
No subsidies, a lottery would be more popular.
Premier Gladys has four borers sitting idle (or soon will be) and they make good time through sandstone.
10
I have a friend who did some GPR work for Gladdys’s tunnels.
Looking for unmapped metal before boring.
20
That wont help get the kids across town to soccer on sat morning….
…Or run the dogs to the beach for a swim..
…Or the expectant mum to maternity at 2am in the morning !
…or carry the shopping home from Ikea !
….or….
10
It is really Weird.
What’s going on?
30
What’s going on? The vast majority of politicians have the intelligence that’s not much better than that of a rodent.
80
Whatever money they are getting out of this, in the end their own extended families, neighbours and nation as a whole have lost hope of a decent future.
50
PeterS:
Aren’t you over rating them?
60
“Why doesn’t the government…….?”
Simple…
The bloody government didn’t build all those Service Stations for petrol and diesel, either.
They were built by Shell, Caltex et al, and paid for by the drivers of petrol and diesel vehicles…. while the government rips us off still further in taxes and charges. Government didn’t build the service infrastructure, but it sure as hell makes money from it.
If our little genius thinks that selling electricity to EVs in the coming (and profitable) thing, then he is welcome to set up the number required at intervals across Australia and watch the profits roll in.
That he wants somebody else to pay for it is a de-facto admission that driving EVs across Australia is not so attractive or in demand that EV owners are willing to pay for the infrastructure.
He wants everyone else to pay for his pleasure.
230
You need many more upvotes for that first paragraph.
Entrepreneurs take the risk and cost, and go to the effort to build petrol stations. Yet this ya-hoo expects the government to provide for his low volume special interest vehicle because…. he’s special or something.
If you own something special, then that is your responsibility to deal with the speciality of the vehicle. For example, Victorians with a supercharger and blower can’t leave the state. Big foot vehicles aren’t very supermarket friendly, Supercars are low profile and will bottom out on most driveway crossovers.
You buy it, you deal with it. It’s not up to the rest of Australia to pay for your special interest.
110
Aug 6, 2019, By Invitation Only – Australian Right Hand Drive Performance Tesla Model 3 Test Drive on a Private Race Track.
@3.45, watch the acceleration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGoHvCg_5BA&feature=youtu.be
50
You could probably get the same performance from a small diesel motor feeding a much smaller battery by still using electric motors as the drive mechanism.
This is how most modern hi-speed diesel-electric passenger trains operate.. drive units on each coach all fed from a single diesel generator.
100
Interesting analogy. So it looks like it would be far better to have a diesel electric car to drive the electric wheels directly rather than having the problems associated with lugging around a heavy load of batteries and stopping at one of those diesel powered charging stations and spend far more time waiting to get charged compared to refuelling the diesel electric powered car.
110
I actually would like that idea (diesel or petrol) as I would get far better acceleration and produce even more CO2 emissions, which is good for the environment as we all know 🙂 It would be the right sort of virtue signalling turnaround to the virtual signallers of the left.
100
The actually combustion engine would never need to rev hard if there was a small battery storage between it and the electric drive motors.
Hence, lowering CO2 as combustion engine could be run at its most economical.
80
Mind you, the fact that no-one has ever implemented this system probably means that there are some serious issues somewhere. 😉
All the same, imagine a 2 litre hi-efficiency engine with an electric drive and battery storage of say 1/5 of a Tesla, capable of short duration performance like a Tesla 3, but with fossil fuel storage for a range of over 1000km, and quick re-fill times.
80
The only issue with the idea I can think of is the governments won’t be able to cream off us as many taxes but then again all they need to do is to increase them. The other “downside” is the renewables scam artists won’t be able to make their fortunes and so they will have to find another scam.
80
Yes,they are called plug-in hybrids and they are great as EVs for urban driving. Mine’s powered from my rooftop solar. And remember that refining each litre of petrol or diesel consumes quite a lot of electricity.
12
Andy, don’t your large open cast mining operations use diesel electric dump trucks? Constant speed diesel generator feeding power to electric hub motors – very efficient.
Could be applied to cars to give all wheel drive without having to lug around a massive fire hazard of a battery but since the government won’t give any subsidies to the car manufacturers it will never happen.
60
Point I am trying to make Ivan, is that a much smaller battery could be used to power those “high acceleration” moments. That vroom, we all love. 😉
Large size batteries like Teslas not needed, because the combustion engine provide continuous power and large storage for distance is not required.
Yep diesel electric mining trucks are used, but that’s for continuous hard slog where drive shaft weight from the diesel engine would be very significant if as strong as required.
50
No, it is not so simple.
For rapid accelleration , an EV needs a huge current (1000+ amps for that Tesla ), which in turn means it needs a “big” ( high capacity) battery to produce that current.
A smaller battery just cannot do that.
Adding a diesel motor and generator just increases the total weight and reduces the accelleration…even if you retained the big battery.
20
Electric motors have more instantaneous torque than piston engines. The magnetic force is huge given enough amps. Hence use on trains and heavy vehicles that dont have a weight problem to over come, weight is a much larger part than the fuel weight.
90
Seriously!? This notable exception of a diesel-powered remote EV charging station aside, the reality is that remote EV charging stations will be powered by solar PV generators with battery storage. It’s no accident that the Australian mining industry is now moving quickly from diesel-generated electricity to solar power for their large remote operations – because it’s CHEAPER.
The majority of Australian EVs are NOT powered by fossil fuel generated electricity. Most Australian EV owners source their electricity from accredited renewable sources or use their own (rooftop solar).
I have no problem with genuine pragmatic skepticism – it’s a healthy part of the science process – but when it’s based on ignorance and denial it is of little value.
218
Accredited renewable sources? Any facts and figures on that? Or is that ACT-type renewable sources?
150
Welcome to the real world David
Renewables don’t cut the mustard here.
If you make assertions with no evidence to back them up
You will be canned as a troll
90
LOL DGJ, such gullibility.
The electricity supply is all linked together. The is no separate system.
Solar RELIES on having 100% fossil fuel back-up.
Fossil fuels provide some 80%+ of the country’s electricity, so that is what EV use, nearly all fossil fuel.
Its amazing how many people say they are 100% “renewable” electricity, when wind and solar provide so little and so erratically.
They are only FOOLING themselves.
130
‘ … such gullibility.’
I’m not at liberty to say.
https://navalinstitute.com.au/future-proofing-the-attack-class/
30
But the ABC and Triple JJJ say it’s true.
30
‘– but when it’s based on ignorance and denial it is of little value.’ Yes, just like the climate scam you believe in!
..because it’s CHEAPER…not when they have to replace all those panels in 5 years AND the sun dont shine at night, so when they need power at night…THen they have to replace ALL those shot batteries after another 5 years..One diesel gen would last a few decades if run properly.
Solar maybe only useful when you CANT run a generator at some locations.
90
Please link to an article or document demonstrating this.
61
This is straight out of the Elron Musk fantasy for Teslemmings where he claimed that solar panels would generate all the power needed for their SuperCharger stations and feed the excess into the grid. Of course this has never happened and never will since the power needed to charge a single Tesla would require a PV array around the size of a (US) football field and this assumes bright sunshine while charging.
And before the battery tale is brought up as the “solution” consider also that the amount of storage required would be around 1.2 x the battery capacity of each EV to be charged. Work out the costs on that sitting around, mostly unused. Plus the battery still needs to be charged between recharging so the PV array can’t be too small else the time interval between vehicles being able to charge gets too big. Finally, the deep cycling of batteries at a charge station would degrade them quickly, adding frequent replacements to the cost (unless the battery capacity was massively over-factored which then shifts replacement costs to upfront capital costs….)
Welcome David Glynne Jones – to reality
100
David — delighted you can pop in. If solar power was going to make sense anywhere in the world it would surely be on the Nullarbor or remote mine sites of Australia. But even there you can see by Jon Edwards own thoughts that solar is wildly expensive.
And you probably have no idea, but all those solar panels people use to “charge” their EV’s are not actually charging their EV’s at all if they don’t have a battery at home and if the EV owner is plugged in at night. And their inefficient solar panels are half paid for by their poor neighbours through their electricity bills as well.
The whole nation is paying the bill for solar power.
The only people who can claim to be running off renewables for their car are people who are totally off grid. ie. almost no one in the nation. Is there even one who built their own off-grid supply to charge their EV, and when you find that person, ask them if they accepted the subsidies that make electricity so expensive for the poor…
171
And it gets worse – https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/three-years-on-from-the-south-australia-blackout-the-dangers-of-our-rush-to-renewables-are-even-clearer-20190807-p52esi.html
100
Nice find!
50
Horse, water, drink.
60
Drink. kool-aid, donkey.
30
Ohhhhhh Dearie Me !
Renewables are a huge stuff up !
Here are Chris Ulman’s words in the SMH :
“The Australian Energy Market Commission’s reliability panel reported this year that system strength is declining across north Queensland, south-west New South Wales, north-western Victoria and South Australia……South Australia’s power system is on life support, kept afloat by now routine interventions by the energy market operator. That means directing wind farms to shut down and telling gas suppliers to tool up just to keep the system secure and the lights on.,,,,,,The panel notes all this intervention comes at a huge cost to wholesale marker prices – more than $270 million as of September last year.
The science tells us that integrating intermittent renewable energy to a grid that was not designed to deal with it brings a host of significant technical problems. It is distorting the market and stressing old base load suppliers which must work harder pick up the slack, particularly in times of peak demand, when unsupported wind power routinely underperforms.
In time we will solve these problems but if we run too fast the system will fall over. It is something we need to debate rationally. And we should listen to the science.”
The Greenist staffers at poor old Fairfax SMH must be spitting chips and crying in their latte’s today !
70
Now, WHERE are those new HELE coal fired power stations that are ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED in each of the Eastern stats. !
WAKE UP TIME, politicians !
Time to do something about it.
110
And especially in South Australia !
30
FB HELE is urgently needed.
10
“The science tells us that integrating intermittent renewable energy to a grid that was not designed to deal with it brings a host of significant technical problems” . this is the reason that I posted the link, so Well Done Bill.
However, I have heard the phrase “intermittent renewable energy to a grid that was not designed to deal with it” for nearly as long as rooftop solar has been a thing, and from both within a distribution organisation where I used to work and in the press. In all that time, I have never seen a plan, nor even a description of what such a network would look like.
Does anyone here have an insight?
19
Peter the issue is that the electricity power grid was designed around the existing methods of generating power.
And those old fashioned methods were all capable to providing stable/consistent supply of power, and meeting demand, at stable voltage & frequency.
It’s what’s called an integrated system grid.
this by the way was invented & developed in the 1890’s to 1920’s.
Nowa hundred years after latter day renewable engineers was to force into that stable system lots of erratic and unstable wind & solar power…
Is it any wonder i there are issues and system collapses ?
We have a private enterprise power system. If the new latter day power generation companies want to sell their erratic & unstable power into the grid, they should naturally wear the costs of doing so. But at present it is consumers paying via higher power prices and concealed government ‘taxes’ on the older stable power generation systems.
is this right ? No !
Is this fair ? Absolutely not !
And will it even solve this so-called ” Global warmin” problem ? Not a chance is hell !
100
Good one Bill.
20
No Nill, there has been 20 years to build out a network which can cope, but nothing has been done, and the reason is that no one knows what that network would look like. To blame renewables, which are a mandated part of the grid is just a cop out
18
FP sea,
” but nothing has been done, and the reason is that no one knows what that network would look like”.
Wong.
Every electrical engineer knows the requirements.
KK
20
That was more than 20 years ago, Bill. I’ve lost count how many times this issues has been highlighted on this site alone. No one can say what the grid should look like, all they can do is look back at the analog ‘golden age’, which never really existed, and by that I mean that outages were longer, and power quality was no where near as good as it is now.
18
” To blame renewables, which are a mandated part of the grid is just a cop out”
No PF, it is the mandating of renewables that is killing the stable grid we had just 10 -15 years ago.
Without the mandate and the subsidies and the forced payments by reliable suppliers to cover for renewable erratic non-supply, renewables wouldn’t exist, new coal fired power stations would have been built and there would still be excess DISPATCHABLE supply, and a much lower price.
To pretend otherwise is being wilfully blind, as well as wilfully ignorant.
60
“I’ve lost count how many times this issues has been highlighted on this site alone. “
And you have been totally wrong about it EVERY time, PF. !
Incapable of learning.
50
Peter right now the Fossil fuel generators are supplying 78% of the demand wanted by Australians.
Your wind & solar are supplying about 5%
The reason why the grid has not changed to allow your renewables is simple : THERE IS NO NEED.
We’d all be better off without them and paying less for a more reliable and stable power supply.
And if the renewable energy companies want to join the party let those bastards pay for entry to the party !
Not consumers !
Not the coal & gas power operators !
Otherwise they should all stuff off !
50
Yes.
10
Drongo,
It is also at least we have been hearing this crap about CO2 from soothsayers such as you.
It is also about 20 years since we commenced wasting trillions on subsidies for technologies which just don’t cut the muster.
20
“distribution organisation”
IF you did actually work in a distribution organisation you would know that no organisation would put up with a totally erratic supplier when they have to have a constant distribution.
A supplier who couldn’t meet their regular delivery, on time as required, would be out of business in a very short time.
Facts and reality don’t count in your comments, do they PF !
30
Isn’t it great to see the leftists finally waking up to the problem they helped to create. 🙂
I mean, they could have listened, like, right at the start, when us realists pointed out the problems that were going to arise.
70
As Chris Uhlman says: “initial experimentation with renewable power generation should be done by the CSIRO, that’s what it’s there for”.
Had CSIRO been given the task of developing modules for solar and wind that could integrate properly with the current system we would all have been better off.
Instead we are paying through the nose to send “super profits” to Chyna and other places unknown.
I agree with Chris.
KK
10
I’d love to visit the land where the sun shines all night and everyone has a house with an unshaded roof rather than, say, Sydney, a place of setting sun where people live in home units and park cars where they can and when they can (if they can).
O take me to that other land, called David Land.
30
Jo, I have been screaming from the hilltops about this for a decade, I was a Program Manager for a nationwide solar provider in the Labor years, it went bust like so many others that existed solely because of Labors solar subsidies.
Domestic solar is middleclass welfare, solar subsidies allow wealthy people to buy home solar that they could not justify without government money. Then the additional costs of the program, input tariffs, infrastructure upgrades, admin costs, maintenance etc are borne by the power producers. Since they are not prepared to absorb these costs they pass it on to the consumer, but the wealthy upper and middle class who now have solar are not paying for their power, so the poor people who can’t afford solar even with government subsidies have to pay more to cover the costs added into the system by the wealthy peoples solar.
The whole system is a rort that takes money from the poor and gives it to the wealthy.
40
Clear he has never been into the outback as expecting a single unit to be available and not broken when needed is a joke. Would need a minimum of 1 complete standby system to be viable and even then there would still be strandings. Now with the costs etc of installation and keeping two systems at each of 14 points the charge is going to be mega expensive. But at least they will be paying the fuel excise as I assume they can not claim it back in this case.
Best to just put your EV on the train or get a flatbed tow as the EV would most likely finish the trip on one anyway.
180
Apparently the trip by road from Sydney to Perth using an EV would be slightly faster than it took Cobb & Co Coaches before they ceased operations in 1925 in Longreach, Queensland.
sarc
90
They can’t even manage to keep the dunnies operational in the outback. So what chance a public charging system?
60
What? Long drops are always operational. Keep mouth closed at all times.
10
When he did his calcs, I wonder if he used Perth diesel prices or small volumes scattered across the Nullabor diesel prices?
30
posted online 50min ago. ABC to report any day now!
7 Aug: AFR: Energy regulator sues wind farms over SA blackout
by Angela Macdonald-Smith and Simon Evans
The Australian Energy Regulator has taken court action against several South Australian wind power ventures over the “system black” event that plunged the whole state into darkness in September 2016.
Tilt Renewables, owner of the Snowtown wind farm in South Australia, said on Wednesday it has been served with court proceedings on behalf of the regulator and it understood a number of owner wind farm owners in the state had as well…
Faults on power lines forced long-distance transmission lines out of service , causing several wind farms to cut off from the grid or reduce output, which then drove an interconnector with Victoria to cut out, isolating the state and resulting in tripping of all generators.
The dramatic shutdown resulted in a “system black” for only the third time since 1964 and fired up a debate on whether Australia was moving too rapidly away from reliable, baseload generators to intermittent wind and solar.
“With respect to the event in question, Snowtown 2 Wind Farm believes it acted in good faith and in accordance with the applicable National Electricity Rules, and the company will continue to engage with the AER in an endeavour to resolve this matter,” Tilt, which is majority-owned by New Zealand’s Infratil, said in a statement to the Australian Securities Exchange.
Other wind farms affected in the blackout were North Brown Hill, Bluff, Hallett and Hornsdale.
More to come
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/energy-regulator-acts-against-sa-wind-farms-on-blackout-20190807-p52elk
140
Here’s the ABC report, Pat!!
excerpt
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-07/regulator-legal-action-against-energy-companies-over-sa-blackout/11390400
20
this didn’t come up in original search, but found it eventually:
7 Aug: ABC: Energy regulator launches legal action against wind farm operators over SA statewide blackout
Updated 35 minutes ago
The Australian Energy Regulator (AER) has launched legal proceedings against four wind farm operators over South Australia’s 2016 statewide blackout.
The AER said the Federal Court proceedings were against subsidiaries of AGL, Neoen, Pacific Hydro and Tilt Renewables.
It alleged the companies failed to comply with performance requirements to ride through major disruptions and disturbances, and breached the National Electricity Rules
“The AER has brought these proceedings to send a strong signal to all energy businesses about the importance of compliance with performance standards to promote system security and reliability,” AER chair Paula Conboy said in a statement…
The blackout occurred on September 28, 2016, when extreme weather — described at the time as “twin tornadoes” — caused major damage to electricity infrastructure, knocking down huge transmission lines.
The AER said a subsequent loss of wind generation then triggered the blackout, which left 850,000 people without power.
The regulator said it was seeking to impose penalties against the four companies
The blackout prompted multiple investigations as well as furious debate in the ensuing months about the reliability of renewables…
Economic analysis carried out by the state’s peak business lobby, Business SA, alleged the blackout cost businesses $367 million…
More to come.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-07/regulator-legal-action-against-energy-companies-over-sa-blackout/11390400
80
G’day Pat,
There’s already an update:
…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-07/sa-blackout-explained-as-regulator-launches-legal-action/11390760
…
The main addition is that AGL is claiming it has adhered to all existing regulations.
And the wind speeds mentioned are higher than I remember.
Cheers
Dave B
40
The wind speeds are based on estimates from damage. One was a hall which had its roof come off. Elsewhere, that photo was on the internet along with another that showed a very old weatherboard house next door that hadn’t been damaged at all. A yucca with a flower stalk was also undamaged in the front yard.
I’m pretty sure they new the roof came off because the hall was a modern well sealed one and a whirlwind can rip those grooves off.
30
Did the weatherboard house have a roof with a steep peak? And was the hall a modern flattish roof?
Seems that if your roof is between about 5 and 15 degrees at the peak you have reinvented the aerofoil. (15 degrees is about the stall angle)
40
It’s amazing how virtue signalers go straight to all electric cars. No CO2 for them. When in fact they are 80% on fossil fuels and the compound inefficiencies mean they generate more CO2 than a hybrid.
In fact hybrids are very practical and can run in full battery mode when required, can go vast distances and have all the advantages of electric and diesel/petrol. They are also cheap. When I looked last a new Toyota Camry hybrid, a good family car is only $A30,000. Teslas vary from $120,000 to $240,000.
So like solar panels, it is all middle class virtue signalling and expecting everyone else to pick up the tab for the charging stations and the nett result for everyone is that they are worse off. It would be fine if the virtue signallers did not want to ruin the country by stealing everyone’s money to indulge their beliefs and so pushing electricity prices ever higher. Religious anticarbon nutters who deny they themselves are made almost entirely from carbon dioxide and water.
150
Of course its not just the CO2, thats a distraction from the real agenda. Its get rid of hydrocarbon fuel, nasty diesel, nasty petroleum products in general. Just yesterday I was thinking how about all that nasty (oil derived) tar/asphalt they pour on the roads, too bad if they couldnt have any of that, it too comes from oil.
70
Nah. Just concrete the roads instead. That’s environmentally friendly isn’t it?
Like, you know, no oil needed there. And they last forever.
Remind me, again. How do you make cement?
20
Concrete is one of the biggest sources of CO2 in all industrial applications. More than smelting.
“In 2016, world cement production generated around 2.2 billion tonnes of CO2 – equivalent to 8% of the global total”
“Carbon dioxide is emitted as a by-product of clinker production, an intermediate product in cement manufacture, in which calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is calcinated and converted to lime (CaO), the primary component of cement. CO2 is also emitted during cement production by fossil fuel combustion.”
50
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
20
public order..haha yep try wandering the streets of a Roman town 2000 years ago. And they gave Europe the Coloseums! Live animals vs humans and the rest! Lovely.
00
Totally correct TdeF as always.
But the green left climate worriers always seem to ignore this one.
They know of course there is no subsitute for concrete, by that of course I mean reinforced concrete.
That is unless they want to try a clay & straw mix like the old days. Wattle I think it was called.
GeoffW
00
O/topic, but it seems the ABC is suddenly very worried about free speech in a case where a civil servant was speaking out against the Fed Government:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-07/high-court-free-speech-public-service–banerji-decision/11377990
If only they showed the same concern in cases where they don’t agree with the speaker…
120
I can’t imagine the ABC defending Bolt’s right to speak his mind.
111
behind paywall:
Buyers shoot the breeze over wind farm Snowtown
The Australian – 28 Jul 2019
The starter’s gun has been fired for the sales process of the Tilt Renewables project Snowtown 2, which is expected to be worth around $800 million. Advisory firm Lazard is working on the sales process for the $1.12bn Tilt Renewables, which is listed in Australia and New Zealand…
28 Jun: RenewablesNow: Tilt Renewables mulls selling 270-MW wind farm in S Australia
The company has hired Lazard to assist in reviewing its ownership of the plant, while MUFG will provide debt advisory services.
Tilt Renewables said in a statement that this is an appropriate time to consider its options with regard to existing assets, given its strong revenue contracting position…
It has a long-term off-take contract for 100% of the generated electricity and renewable energy certificates that ends in 2035.
https://renewablesnow.com/news/tilt-renewables-mulls-selling-270-mw-wind-farm-in-s-australia-659745/
20 Jul 2013: Adelaide Advertiser: South Australia’s largest wind farm Snowtown II starts to take shape
by VALERINA CHANGARATHIL
Origin Energy has signed up to purchase 100 per cent of the power generated by the new development over 15 years in its biggest wind purchase agreement.
It is already purchasing 89 per cent of the power generated by the existing wind farm…
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/south-australia8217s-largest-wind-farm-snowtown-ii-starts-to-take-shape/news-story/d9221892e8e82e4b2cd96cbf92ccb63e
30
Victoria Police are running diesel BMWs as highway patrol cars now. Flaunting their green credentials, these use way less fuel than the Holden and Ford V8s they have replaced. Teslas are also on the way as pursuit cars in outer Melbourne. The cops in the UAE use Lamborghinis… but don’t go getting any ideas, Dan, Melbourne property prices and land transfer tax fees are not quite at Dubai levels yet! No Lambo for you, comrade! I think I saw a Hyundai SUV as a cop car in Victoria too… Mad Max would not have been seen dead in a Hyundai!
Prophetic words in the original Mad Max movie: ” It’s the last of the V8s, Max! ” It sure is.
100
Years ago in Darwin I sighted one with the brand name modified to yu dai.
In Sydney a Mitsubishi fish delivery van was modified across the rear to itsa fishi
80
I can’t wait to see the costs involved running a Tesla as a pursuit car, given the weight and the torque
60
Plus the repair costs if there is any collision damage during a pursuit
40
Nah….every so often during a pursuit the cops have to stop at a 7 11 and buy more AA cells….
30
I’m surprised they can get all the police kit into one
10
The numbers do not stack up when looking at the real situation. A small diesel car travelling across the Nullarbor could fuel in Ceduna and travel across the Nullarbor consuming less than 5l/100km. The cost of diesel in Ceduna today is $1.26/l. So cost to cross the Nullarbor works out at $6.3/100km.
An efficient diesel generator stationed at Nullarbor will deliver 4kWhe/l. A Nissan Leaf on highway cycle uses 21kWh/100km. So will use 5.25l/100km. Cost of diesel in Nullarbor today is $2.09/l. So cost for the leg from Nullarbor is going to be $11/100km; almost twice the cost for the diesel car fuelled in Ceduna. The problem is the Nissan Leaf does not have enough range to go the 180km to/from Nullarbor, depending on direction of travel.
Any remote location has higher fuel prices than those on the outskirts of cities. A small diesel powered car will get better than 1000km on a tank of fuel (with air-conditioner RUNNING) so has a much wider option in choosing refuelling point than a vehicle with a range of 120km.
Siting an unattended diesel generator with 100km of Nullarbor will invite efforts from owners of diesel vehicles to get free fuel.
111
The cost of diesel in Ceduna today is $1.26/l.
Seriously?!
That is not the cost in Adelaide at the moment. Do I need to go on a few road trips just to fill up?
70
$1.41/l here in sunny south Brissy.
30
The Ceduna figure I found this morning must have been out of date. Right now the best price I can find for Ceduna is $1.4/l but 4 days old. Nullabor at $2.09/l is 2 days old:
https://petrolspy.com.au/map/station/5212b32e036441297fdbf242
40
Yeah – I did $1.49 on Monday. Saw a $1.39 on the weekend and then didn’t take advantage.
If Ceduna is going for $1.26 I am coming to visit 😛
10
Range anxiety means you wouldn’t use the aircon so you could only travel at night when those starlight cells would be working.
100
If I ever get an electric car, I hope it’s one with a dinky little nuclear reactor. They do it on submarine boats, so why not cars? I like the idea of the car’s having an onboard generator.
100
True greens only ride their fixer bicycles from Freecycle to get a latte made from responsibly sourced beans :).
60
soy latte of course
50
takes half the article to give the sales number:
6 Aug: BNN Bloomberg: Electric car sales climb in wake of new $5,000 federal rebate program
by Mia Rabson, The Canadian Press
OTTAWA – Canada’s new rebate program to help make electric cars cheaper appears to be showing early signs of stimulating sales but mostly in the two provinces that require a minimum number of electric car sales.
On May 1, Ottawa began offering rebates of up to $5,000 on the purchase of some electric vehicles in a bid to bring the cost of lower-end models closer to that of their gas-powered cousins.
Announced in the March budget, the incentives are part of Ottawa’s goal to increase sales of electric cars to 10 per cent of all vehicles sold by 2025, 30 per cent by 2030 and 100 per cent by 2040.
Last year, electric and plug-in hybrids accounted for about two per cent of total vehicle sales.
Matthew Klippenstein, an engineer who began tracking electric vehicle sales a few years ago on his website Canada EV Sales, said they accounted for four per cent of all vehicle sales in May and June..
It’s still a tiny share – the Ford F-series pickup trucks alone accounted for seven per cent of all vehicle sales – but it is rising…
Transport Canada reports that more than 14,000 electric cars and minivans were bought nationwide using the rebate since May 1…
More than eight in 10 of the electric vehicles sold in May and June, were sold in British Columbia and Quebec. Those are the only two provinces that have a provincial rebate – Ontario did until last year when Premier Doug Ford cancelled it after being elected – and both allow their rebate to be combined with the federal one for even greater savings.
Even more important to the sales distribution is that both B.C. and Quebec require dealerships to sell a certain percentage of electric cars, Klippenstein said. If they don’t meet the quotas they have to either pay a fine or buy credits from competitors who exceeded their quotas…
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/electric-car-sales-climb-in-wake-of-new-5-000-federal-rebate-program-1.1298035
40
Pssst, Jon. Battery vehicles are an old idea, and not a bad one. The possibilities and limitations have been apparent for well over a century. What’s amazing is how little the idea has evolved. I actually like battery powered vehicles and solar gizmos and all the rest…which is why I hate seeing this antique technology stretched way beyond all potential and capacity. What used to be good about it is still good. What was clunky remains clunky. Since 1884.
Jon, please stop flogging this dead horse-power. You are exhausting the resources and cred for innovation and chewing up the future by yoking it to the past. Work on the new and untried or improve the old and well-tried…or even do nothing. But stop squeezing dried-up shrivelled lemons for fresh juice.
By the way, the best way to use electricity for transport is to have a proper metro system powered by coal in all major cities. Millions of people stuck in lines of traffic listening to Kyle and Jackie O or the ABC’s earnest drivel is no way to run an economy. Hovering and hunting for an expensive park (still with Kyle or Ray or Wendy drilling into your head) is even worse than the traffic. It won’t help one bit if the cars are electric. Get the workers and punters to where they need to go, free up the roads for those who want or need to run cars. Make trains fast, cheap and frequent. If this is an objectionable socialist concept…go lecture those socialists who run Singapore.
For crossing the Nullarbor, I suggest a Toyota Landcruiser Diesel, the car the angels drive in heaven.
80
Off topic, but yesterday’s posts are so yesterday so thought I’d drop it in here:
“Former Metservice Meteorologist Eric Brenstrum is back with [his dribble about] record high temperatures in Europe… and a drone survey shows the north coast of canada [sic] is collapsing into the sea at an alarming rate”.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/nights/audio/2018707513/world-weather-with-eric-brenstrum
Two years ago I submitted my first official, written complaint to the Broadcasting Standards regarding this propagandist spreading un-scientific nonsense over the airwaves (re polar ice & temps) and have since texted, to his monthly live radio interview, links to scientific observations discrediting his Chicken Little Gergis-isms which he haughtily dismisses with the usual ‘river in Egypt’ ad hominem.
Heat wave! Yet no mention of record cold a few hundred kms away. Arctic sea ice melting! Yet no mention it’s ‘summer’ after all. Canada’s falling into the sea! Again, no consideration for isostatic rebound or natural coastal erosion (ebb & flow). It was colder and snowier back in the 1800s. D’uh!
Maybe a better name for these • • • • is climate pirates as they view life in mono-vision with one eye blinded by the one-size-fits-all IPCC buccaneer’s eye-patch. Arrrrrrr…
70
G’day Greg,
This little extract form the Weatherzone report for today, which show yesterday’s minimum as lower than their advertised record, has not been commented on by our ever observant press.
(I’ve altered the spacing, and added the “****” for emphasis. Otherwise it’s a straight copy from their site today, just a few minutes ago.)
…
MUDGEE AP ALMANAC
Full Climatology
August Minimum Temperature
Lowest This Month……..-6.4°C 6th. ****
Lowest On Record………-6.1°C 4th 1994. ****
Average This Month-3.9°C -5.5°C
Long-term Average1.6°C
August Maximum Temperature
…
So I guess records are important when they show warming, however concocted, but not when cooling.
Cheers
Dave B
…
70
Arrrr… ye be havin’ same one-eyed half-blind parasite-pirates parroting fool’s gold thar too, arrr!!!
Ten years back, a few acquaintances who were sub-editors (journos/proofreaders) lost their jobs due to
progresstakeovers and had to go freelance. Not only did literate print go to the dogs, but a lot of ’em ran to the govt teat, becoming policy/script-writers and press secretaries (predominantly on the left bank side of life). Then a new generation of digital/phone kids came thru an teh hole shebang wen awol ffs [arrr!].And as for skills with numbers: bigger/smaller above/below lowest/lowester? I take it Weatherzone is a commercial for-profit business, hence they would employ keyboard warrior/persons to bang out words and numbers all day long. At least they got this one correct:
https://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/snow-to-low-levels-later-this-week/530035
“One of the coldest air masses of the year will spread over southeastern Australia between Thursday and Sunday… widespread, low-level snow… Temperatures will plummet further on Friday… On Saturday, even colder… snow to reach down to 500 metres above sea level in Tasmania, Victoria and NSW again”. Again? So it’s not unprecedented, phew!
20
Note the formation of a ‘complex low’.
http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDY65100.pdf
20
el gordo,
I live for ‘complex lows’, aka deep depressions, as they bring surf and snow – which gets me high. Confuses the heck out of some people (especially city folk and landlubbers of the Cult of CCCrap™ belief system).
This depression, which I’ll call the Blizzard of Oz, you’d think would make woke warmies happy as it’s going to turn S.E. Aus all colours of the rainbow, from green to turquoise to purple (10 to 50 to 100 cm of new snow) as far north as the hills behind Sydney and even further:
https://www.snow-forecast.com/maps/dynamic/aus?over=none&symbols=snow&type=snow.next3days
No doubt your ABC etc. will turn it into a sure sign of humanity burning the planet. Indulgences, indulgences for sale! Now in new Snow Tax variety! Come and get your indulgences!
10
Get in the popcorn!
60
You just can’t make this stuff up. Wow!
There has to be money to do a study on this, right?
40
The sad truth is we didn’t need to make this sort of stuff up for a long while now. The CAGW scam has been a major “industry” in the West for some time now. The Chinese and Russians must be licking their chops ready to “help” the West if and when it reaches a point of imminent self-destruction. The likely irony is the left in the Western nations will be the first ones to be “culled”.
50
It’s the Nullarbor Plain Jo, not “Nullabor”.
—
Dang. Will fix that! Thanks. – Jo
50
For years I thought that Nullarbor was an aboriginal word.
I was amazed when I found out that it is Latin for ” No trees”.
40
Don’t look up the Latin for Montenegro – you’ll be a racist.
30
Whoops, double-trouble: maybe Arnie meant to say, ‘I’ll be black‘ –
“Schwarzenegger is a German surname that means person from Schwarzenegg, which is both a town in Switzerland and a place in Land Salzburg in Austria. The name also translates literally to ‘black ploughman’ in German” via wordreference/etymology.
20
Peter, I’m obviously a bit older than you.
We learnt that in primary school.
🙂
40
I believe you were right the first time Peter. I have seen it spelled Nullabor in really old sources years ago.
Nullarbor was the spelling reverse-engineered at a later date by the etymologists to suit their 19th century penchant for all things Latin or classical Greek and given a false derivation in the same way that traditional Sparrow Grass became Asparagus because it sounded more erudite.
40
Interesting.
20
So when my mum used to playfully refer to it as Sparrow’s Arse when we were kids, she was really onto it? On ya, Mum!
20
Having lived on the Nullarbor for a while, it does have small groves of shrubs/trees in low-lying areas. The locals used one, “The 17-mile donga”, as a picnic area.
30
Hmmm. Somebody above suggested to just tow a diesel generator behind the car to keep it charged…. Maybe not so silly a suggestion if the car isn’t towing the generator but rather the generator system is part of the car. Modern technology has come a long way and diesel electric systems have been used on ships and trains for over a hundred years now.
Diesel electric or petrol electric vehicles would probably be an fuel efficient way to have endurance for Australian driving conditions if done properly I suppose?
Everything is smaller, lighter and more powerful nowadays. It should be reasonably simple to design a workable hybrid car that uses electric motors to turn the front wheels, doing away with transmissions and gearboxes and a combustion engine to run a generator for electricity. You could even add a battery so that you can get added fuel economy by using the battery for short trips and city driving. Otherwise you just run it as a diesel electric vehicle for long journeys. The emphasis is not to save the planet, but to save money on fuel. The vehicle would be designed to be fuel efficient hybrid, not a “Green” hybrid.
Over time you can build a more “electrical friendly” highway system of service and support for battery renting/swapping/charging as more hybrids are used. But it is always based on saving fuel, not saving the planet.
All of that of course would have to be premised on whether or not a diesel/petrol/gas electric car is more fuel efficient and cheaper to run than an ordinary combustion engine car and remarkably so…. otherwise, what’s the point?
Nobody has really taken to “Hybrid” cars as they appear on the market at the moment. So there must be some sort of problem with them…. Probably more to do with them being a “Green petrol electric” hybrid rather than a “fuel efficient petrol electric” hybrid. The more battery it has, the less appealing it becomes for long driving because the combustion engine it is using isn’t dedicated for saving fuel but for the political purpose of saving the planet and thus is under powered while the vehicle is overweight with batteries.
But in the end… It is a lot of complexity and changes to save a few bucks of extra fuel. Diesel electric makes sense with cargo ships and goods trains, but maybe not so much with cars?
90
Put the diesel generator and fuel tank inside the car.
Problem solved.
70
Solved it for trains and ships. 😉
60
Chevy Volt (hybrid) only it has a cheaper and lighter (if less efficient) petrol engine powering the generator.
40
Just ran a check from Perth to Adelaide, and while it’s possible to install charging stations around 200 kms apart all the way, it would mean a LOT of long stops, making for a very long, tiring and expensive journey, as you have to factor in far more overnight stops. Absolutely senseless.
80
Caravans being towed on that highway at 80 kmh are a hazard, imagine lots of EVs doing the same speed to maximise energy usage and distance.
60
It is clearly not a solution for the Nullarbor, each one would need a mini business attached, including a couple of cabins but if EVs are forced upon us prematurely there would still be a market for them. Every roadhouse that is off grid would need one and breakdown services would need a mobile version
40
And at least a couple of guard dogs – that looks a pretty useful gen set.
” Every roadhouse that is off grid would need one and breakdown services would need a mobile version”
Maybe a diesel tilt tray would give a better return?
10
The simplest solution is usually the best
10
Sorry, should have also stated that I was using existing roadhouses for each of the stops.
00
more wind woes.
Wikipedia: Suzlon: It was formerly ranked by MAKE as the world’s fifth largest wind turbine supplier. It has since dropped out of the Global top ten rankings (as of 2014) due to extensive losses and inability to repay debts…
Suzlon has cumulatively added over 11000 megawatts of wind power capacity for over 1,700 customers in India across 40 sites in eight States. Suzlon accounts for nearly one-third of the country’s total wind installations…
behind paywall:
7 Aug: BusinessStandardIndia: Suzlon Energy’s bondholders plan to take legal action over default
Banks unlikely to agree to a steep haircut
by Dev Chatterjee
Suzlon Energy’s bondholders are planning to take legal action against the company for defaulting in repayment in mid-July. The bondholders have hired a legal firm, Kirkland and Ellis, to chalk out strategy.
This comes in the backdrop of banks not agreeing to an informal offer by Brookfield which had offered to take over the company, provided banks take a significant haircut on their Rs 10,300-crore exposure…
https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/suzlon-energy-s-bondholders-plans-to-take-legal-action-over-default-119080601675_1.html
7 Aug: EconomicTimesIndia: Brookfield no longer in race for Suzlon Energy stake as talks fail
Banker says Brookfield’s proposal for 60-70% haircut not acceptable.
By Rachita Prasad, Saloni Shukla
MUMBAI: Brookfield’s plan to acquire a majority stake in Suzlon EnergyNSE -5.88 % has fallen through, after the Canadian investor could not reach a deal with the wind-turbine maker’s lenders on valuation, two people aware of the development said…
Brookfield had asked for a 60-70% haircut on the debt, a senior banker said, adding: “The deal with Brookfield is not happening.”…
Suzlon, which has defaulted on loan repayments and has loans categorised as non-performing asset by lenders, was banking on a deal with Brookfield to resolve its stressed debt…
Shares of Suzlon closed 1.7% lower at Rs 4.25 on the Bombay Stock Exchange Tuesday…
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/brookfield-no-longer-in-race-for-suzlon-energy-stake-as-talks-fail/articleshow/70562807.cms
41
Good story Pat. And now that this Suzlon mob has gone broke, when the life of their ‘windmills’ is over,sooner or later,there will of course be nobody responsible to fix them. Inevitably they will, become huge dinasaur-like hulks blighting the landscape of India.
GeoffW
80
The futility & stupidity of these people’s actions in utilizing diesel power to charge their electric cars makes it is clear that they have no consideration for the climate.
So long as they can have their electric ‘toys’ they don’t give a hoot about the CO2 emmissions !!
GeoffW
90
Uhlmann recalls the time someone at ABC was honest about REs!
7 Aug: SMH: Three years on from the South Australia blackout, the dangers of our rush to renewables are even clearer
by Chris Uhlmann, Nine News Political Editor
Listen to the science. It’s a perfectly rational statement often used by those urging others to accept that the climate is changing and human activity is driving it.
But many who make this point tend to become irrational when someone dares question their preferred remedies or points out that making rapid changes to complex systems, like our energy grid, might be a tad harder than they claim.
So it was when the lights went out in South Australia in 2016.
Three days before that happened I reported that “the rise of intermittent wind generation poses risks in managing the stability and reliability of the power grid”.
In the wake of the state-wide blackout – something that is vanishingly rare – I wrote a series of pieces which raised questions about the role South Australia’s heavy reliance on wind had played in the shutdown.
It should be noted that none of these reports questioned the reality of climate change…
But no qualifications were heard above the storm that followed as thousands of complaints rained down on my then employer, the ABC.
A formal complaint was lodged with the broadcast watchdog for the crime of having “clearly indicated that it was his strong suspicion that the SA statewide blackout occurred because of SA’s reliance on renewable energy.”…
The Australian Energy Market Commission’s reliability panel reported this year that system strength is declining across north Queensland, south-west New South Wales, north-western Victoria and South Australia.
South Australia’s power system is on life support, kept afloat by now routine interventions by the energy market operator…READ ON
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/three-years-on-from-the-south-australia-blackout-the-dangers-of-our-rush-to-renewables-are-even-clearer-20190807-p52esi.html
40
Times have changed when these words can even be uttered as front page stories in mainstream news outlets.
30
meanwhile, in the Land of Oz –
7 Aug: Ecogeneration: Stampeding sheep, cross-border interconnection and China risk: ACES International Perspective panel
Australia may be ahead of the pack in adoption of new technology but we have be aware on how the rest of the world is travelling, an expert panel at the Clean Energy Summit concluded.
The panel
•Kobad Bhavnagri (chair), global head of special projects, Bloomberg New Energy Finance
•Chris Twomey, senior investment manager, Elliott Green Power
•Sheri Hickok, general manager global product development, GE Renewable Energy
•Tim Buckley, director, Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis
•Mark Leslie, managing director Asia Pacific, Fluence
The planets are nearing alignment and the conditions for investment in clean energy are improving quickly. Costs of wind, solar and – in particular – storage have fallen and are predicted to keep doing so, rendering thermal generation a poor choice for investors. Financiers have been slow to favour renewables, said Tim Buckley of the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis, but things are starting to move as technology, economics and policy overlap to guide the financial markets.
“When they move, they stampede,” he said. “They might be a pack of sheep, but they will stampede as a pack of sheep.”.
Buckley has counted 116 globally significant financial institutions that have policies to exit coal…
The joy of wind and solar…
Around the world, Buckley is watching how India expects to meet Prime Minister Modi’s target of 523GW of renewables by 2030, which some say would require 136GWh of storage…
https://www.ecogeneration.com.au/stampeding-sheep-cross-border-interconnection-and-china-risk-aces-international-perspective-panel/
00
AUDIO: 7min17sec: Aug: ABC Breakfast: Australia’s first carbon farming prize offers $20k incentive
While Australia’s energy policy history has been quite muddled, did you know that soil has the potential to play a significant role in the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions?
Earlier this year an Australian farmer became the first in the world to receive carbon credits for capturing and storing carbon in the soil on his property in Victoria.
And while carbon farming is yet to be widely embraced, there’s now a national cash prize of $20,000 on offer to encourage Aussie farmers to give carbon farming a go.
Guests:
Niels Olsen, Victorian farmer and inventor
Matthew Warnken, managing director, Corporate Carbon and Agriprove
Stephen Whitsed, Victorian farmer
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/australias-first-carbon-farming-prize-offers-$20k-incentive/11386224
7 Aug: BeefCentral: Pay dirt: world first project paves way for soil carbon payments
by James Nason
PIC: Landowners Niels and Marja Olsen and Matthew Warnken, Corporate Carbon, receiving the first soil carbon credits
EARLIER this year Victorian cattle producers Niels and Marja Olsen achieved a world first by earning income for capturing carbon from the atmosphere and storing it in the soil on their property.
The company behind the soil carbon project says Australia has all the necessary elements to drive a strong soil carbon market in future…
The primary barrier preventing greater uptake of soil carbon capture opportunities right now, according to Corporate Carbon’s Matthew Warnken, is the relatively high cost of soil carbon measurement.
However, a strategic public investment in the vicinity of $15m would reduce those costs and accelerate uptake, in the process driving a strong private market for carbon which would allow many more farmers to be paid for their environmental stewardship services, he believes…
Mr Warnken said while he is a firm believer in private markets, he thinks there is a role for a funding subsidy to kick start the baselining process.
Without this, it could take seven to 10 years to get to one million hectares he believes…
“There are similarities with renewable energy in that some early support and subsidies assisted the technology development – but there was always a solid business case underneath.”…READ ALL
https://www.beefcentral.com/production/pay-dirt-world-first-project-lays-platform-for-soil-carbon-payments/
LinkedIn: Matthew Warnken, Managing Director at Corporate Carbon, Sydney, Australia
Matthew Warnken has formal training in natural resource management and gained undergraduate qualifications in Arts and Science from the Australian National University. He has a Masters of Engineering Research from the University of Sydney, and a business Masters in early stage commercialisation from the University of Adelaide…
Matthew has been leading teams around start-up projects in resource recovery and renewable energy for the last decade. From an operational perspective he established an alternative fuel cement kiln pilot plant; while from a carbon markets perspective he has been at the forefront of emissions trading and carbon credit origination in Australia, taking Corporate Carbon from a start up to Australia’s leading carbon solution provider. Matthew is founder and Managing Director of Corporate Carbon, the largest multi-sector carbon contractor of carbon abatement projects under the Emissions Reduction Fund.
10
Really weird stuff.
10
Many claim the title “engineer”, few are worthy.
60
Aha, someone set up a off grid charging station. Neat. Nice optimization.
All he needs is a coffee shop, motel and he’s got a good business. Or, he could get this setup refitted, set up on a trailer, and cruise the byways and recharge lost electric vehicles. But, like here, in the USA, ev’s, are not travel vehicles. They don’t last a day on the roads. Unless it’s a short day. They really needed a hybrid. A combination of gas electric vehicle. But, greens must only travel about an hour a day? The spots I head for are usually about four hours away with no recharger facilities. A shame.
20
7 Aug: AFR: Taylor cites ‘system black’ lawsuits in bid to slow renewables
by Angela Macdonald-Smith and Simon Evans
Legal action by the Australian Energy Regulator against four wind farm owners over the “system black” that plunged South Australia into darkness almost three years ago has added fuel to the federal government’s push to slow the influx of intermittent renewable energy in Victoria.
Federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor went on the front foot to highlight the need for wind farms to “perform” and to be backed up with reliable power.
He renewed calls on the Victorian government to take action to keep its coal and gas power generators in the market for longer, to help keep the lights on over summer…
The dramatic shutdown fired up a debate on whether Australia was moving too rapidly away from round-the-clock generators to weather-dependent wind and solar…
Clean Energy Council head Kane Thornton described the step as “disappointing and distracting” and voiced concerns it would reignite misleading claims that wind farms were responsible for the blackout…
‘Highly technical’ allegations
The Australia Institute’s climate and energy program director Richie Merzian said the timing of the move “certainly leaves more questions than answers”…
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/energy-regulator-acts-against-sa-wind-farms-on-blackout-20190807-p52elk
7 Aug: RE News: Suzlon shares dip as ‘Brookfield deal falls through’
Shares in troubled turbine manufacturer Suzlon were trading down over 6% on Wednesday after media reports the acquisition of a majority stake by Canadian investor Brookfield has fallen through…
The Mumbai Stock Exchange has meanwhile “sought clarification” from Suzlon over a media report that bondholders are planning legal action over an unpaid bond…
Suzlon has yet to reply to the request from officials, according to the stock exchange notice.
The company did not respond to a request for comment by press time. Brookfield declined to comment
https://renews.biz/54677/suzlon-shares-dip-as-brookfield-deal-falls-through/
10
7 Aug: RenewEconomy: ANU says photosynthesis could unlock endless supplies of renewable hydrogen
by Michael Mazengarb
Australian scientists have helped unlock a key step in the photosynthesis reaction of plants that could have applications in the production of potentially limitless supplies of renewable hydrogen fuels…
The research led by scientists working between the ANU in Canberra and the Max Planck Institute for Chemical Energy Conversion in Germany has identified a crucial step in the photosynthesis process undertaken by plants that allows water to be split up into its hydrogen and oxygen components…
Australia is well placed to become a global leader in renewable fuels, with researchers at the CSIRO highlighting Australia’s abundant renewable energy resources and existing connections with international export markets meaning Australia could come to dominate a market for renewable hydrogen.
Australia’s chief scientist, Dr Alan Finkel, argued that coal and gas could be used in the production of hydrogen fuel, and used to displace liquid fuel supplies predominantly met by oil products.
In his keynote speech to the Clean Energy Summit, Finkel said that the use of coal and gas, when combined with carbon capture and storage, may be necessary to provide a greater diversity of energy supply in a future decarbonised energy system dominated by wind and solar.
The research is to be published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America
https://reneweconomy.com.au/anu-says-photosynthesis-could-unlock-endless-supplies-of-renewable-hydrogen-98870/
00
Solar panels on NSW homes may be faulty, Clean Energy regulator
Daily Telegraph – 7 Aug 2019
EXCLUSIVE: Complaints about dodgy solar panel installations have hit more than one a day in NSW in an alarming parallel with the Rudd…
7 Aug: The West: Complaints rise to one a day as report reveals a quarter of home installations are faulty
by Clarissa Bye, Daiy Telegraph
https://thewest.com.au/news/nsw/complaints-rise-to-one-a-day-as-report-reveals-a-quarter-of-home-installations-are-faulty-ng-473a404d6194e529e12f20d4378b2776
Complaints rise to one a day as report reveals a quarter of home installations are faulty
Daily Telegraph-1 hour ago
Tradie Brett Stephen Muldoon pretended to install around 425 solar heated hot-water systems, but instead pocketed around $7500 a week to…
7 Aug: OneStepOffTheGrid: Brisbane plumber sent to jail for “sophisticated” fraud over solar heat pumps
By Sophie Vorrath
Australia’s Clean Energy Regulator has claimed a significant win in the battle against non compliance in the solar installation industry, after a Brisbane plumber was sentenced to four-and-a-half years jail for falsely claiming to have installed more than 400 solar heat pumps.
The CER said on Wednesday that the man, Brett Stephen Muldoon, would serve a minimum jail term of 15 months after pleading guilty to one charge of fraud and production of false and misleading documents.
The sentence, handed down this week by the Brisbane District Court, is the result of an investigation by the regulator, into compliance with the Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme under the Renewable Energy Target.
The investigation found Muldoon obtained just under $400,000 by producing false and misleading documentation claiming that non-existent solar air-source heat pumps had been installed at more than 400 properties throughout Queensland.
This enabled him to improperly create 11,180 small-scale technology certificates – or STCs – between 2013-14, the CER said.
STCs – one created and validated – act as a form of rebate, allowing holders to recoup a portion of the cost of purchasing and installing a small-scale solar system, or transfer to other individuals and businesses at a negotiated price…
And more than a few companies and individuals have been caught out. In late 2017, the Regulator took action against an PV installer Green and Gold Solar Australia installing rooftop PV systems without compliant Victorian Certificates of Electrical Safety, therefore making them ineligible for STCs.
Later that same year, CER took enforcement action against Emerging Energy for the improper creation of STCs for non-compliant solar PV panels and installations that were not done by a Clean Energy Council (CEC) accredited installer.
The jail sentence handed down this week, however, is a rare outcome of enforcement action taken by the CER, occurring on only one other occasion in Australia.
In that case, in April 2016, the director of a Queensland solar retail business was sentenced to four years imprisonment, after being charged with fraudulently obtaining more than $260,000 by producing false and misleading documentation claiming that non-existent solar PV systems had been installed between 2012-13…
https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/brisbane-plumber-sent-to-jail-for-sophisticated-fraud-over-solar-heat-pumps/
10
7 Aug: Brisbane Times: Queensland leading the nation in solar panel uptake, report shows
By Stuart Layt
Queensland is leading the nation in the uptake of new solar panels, with 25 Queensland suburbs and towns now recording at least half their households with rooftop solar.
The latest report from the Climate Council, released on Wednesday, showed Moreton Bay and Logan City council areas in particular are leading the uptake, with the Moreton Bay suburb of Elimbah seeing 70 per cent of households with rooftop solar installed.
The Logan suburb of Jimboomba wan’t far behind, with a little over 60 per cent of homes now having solar panels.
The Climate Council’s CEO Amanda McKenzie said it was not surprising to see homes in the “mortgage belt” of south-east Queensland strongly supporting solar power.
“It’s being driven by the desire to manage [power] costs for families that are paying down their mortgage and are trying to keep their other bills down,” Ms McKenzie said.
“It’s one of these myths that wealthy homes have solar; it tends to be people who are managing their bills and trying to keep their energy costs down.”…
Across the country there are 34 suburbs where more than half the homes have rooftop solar – the 25 Queensland suburbs, as well as eight in South Australia and one in New South Wales…
Mr McKenzie said Queensland wasn’t leading the way with just rooftop solar, but also for large-scale solar developments and other renewable energy products.
The report found there will soon be 10,000 jobs in the renewable sector, also the highest level of any Australian state or territory…
The move to renewable energy was important for Queensland to be able to weather the effects of climate change, with the report also finding Queensland is uniquely vulnerable to the effects of changing weather patterns…
“Climate change is already wreaking havoc in Queensland – we’ve even seen fires burning in rainforests, sea levels are rising and flood risk is increasing,” climate councillor Professor Karen Hussey said…
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/queensland-leading-the-nation-in-solar-panel-uptake-report-shows-20190807-p52em6.html
10
6 Aug: Reuters: China coal mine approvals surge despite climate pledges
by David Stanway, Muyu Xu
SHANGHAI/BEIJING – Approvals for new coal mine construction in China have surged in 2019, government documents showed, with Beijing expecting consumption of the commodity to rise in the coming years even as it steps up its fight against smog and greenhouse gas emissions.
Long-term cuts in coal consumption are a key part of China’s energy, environment and climate goals, but the fivefold increase in new mine approvals in the first-half of 2019 suggests China’s targets still provide ample room for shorter-term growth.
China’s energy regulator gave the go-ahead to build 141 million tonnes of new annual coal production capacity from January to June, compared to 25 million tonnes over the whole of last year, Reuters analysis of approval documents showed.
The projects included new mines in the regions of Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Shanxi and Shaanxi that are part of a national strategy to consolidate output at dedicated coal production “bases”, as well as expansions of existing collieries, the National Energy Administration (NEA) documents showed…
Chinese coal output rose 2.6% in the first-half of 2019 to 1.76 billion tonnes.
MORE TO COME?
Industry groups still expect coal-fired power capacity to increase over the next few years, with investments in nuclear and renewables still insufficient to cover rising energy demand.
The research unit of the China State Grid Corporation last month forecast that total coal-fired capacity would peak at 1,230-1,350 gigawatts (GW), which would mean an increase of about 200-300 GW.
A study published earlier this year also suggested China’s targets would allow the construction of another 290 GW of coal-fired capacity in the coming years…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-climate/china-coal-mine-approvals-surge-despite-climate-pledges-idUSKCN1UW0EM
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7 Aug: WSJ: Wood Pellets Draw Fire as Alternative to Coal
A lawsuit says European policy on using pellets will increase greenhouse-gas emissions; ‘burning gas would release far less carbon dioxide’
By Charlie McGee
The wood-pellet business is thriving based on the argument that trees are a clean-energy alternative to coal, but the science behind it is facing challenges from researchers who say cutting and burning trees takes a heavy environmental toll…
The growth has been focused in Europe, where many utilities receive incentives for using power sources the European Union deems carbon neutral…
U.S. companies such as Enviva PartnersLP have capitalized on the demand. The Maryland-based firm, which manufactures millions of tons of pellets from southeastern U.S. forests for overseas customers, earlier this year surpassed $1 billion in market value…
A lawsuit filed with Europe’s General Court in March charged that the EU policy will increase greenhouse-gas emissions and damage forests, one of the world’s largest natural absorbers of carbon. The lawsuit was filed by a group of scholars, advocacy organizations and European and U.S. landowners who want the EU to make the burning of forest wood ineligible for member states’ renewable-energy targets and subsidies.
The defendants, the European Parliament and the European Council, say the plaintiffs don’t have standing in the suit because they aren’t directly impacted.
The plaintiffs have to file a response by Aug. 21…
The EU consumed an estimated 27.4 million metric tons of wood pellets last year, 25% more than in 2016 and around three quarters of global demand, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Foreign Agricultural Service…
“The irony is, burning gas would release far less carbon-dioxide than burning wood,” said Bill Moomaw, co-author of five reports for the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, one of which helped earn the IPCC a Nobel Peace Prize in 2007…
A study last year by Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor John Sterman and colleagues said burning wood for power releases more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per unit of electricity than coal…
According to the study, wood is less energy efficient than coal, meaning more of it must be burned to produce an equal amount of power…
One of Enviva’s top customers is U.K.-based utility Drax GroupPLC, which has benefited from government incentives for converting much of its coal-fire operation to wood burning. The company said it received nearly £800 million ($973 million) in 2018 from subsidies for wood-pellet usage…
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wood-pellets-draw-fire-as-alternative-to-coal-11565175605
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Even Drax admitted that burning wood increased their output of CO2 but subsidies and not being charged carbon tax makes it profitable. Estimates are that their emission of CO2 went up 32-33%. But if Drax had to use coal (it is built over a closed down coal mine) it would go bankrupt, and cause great problems with electricity supply, or rather NON supply, in the UK.
Perhaps the EU could slap restrictions on Russia by banning wood pellet imports from there. About one and a half million tons per year and increasing. Might cause some problems because one third comes bagged for household use (Germany has 0.5 million homes with electricity cut off due to not being able to pay), and that helps keep the downtrodden masses warm (and quiescent).
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XR is guaranteed plenty of space in Brisbane Times:
7 Aug: Brisbane Times: War of words between activists, police, magistrate in Brisbane court
By Toby Crockford
The majority of those who fronted court pleaded guilty and were either fined, issued good-behaviour bonds or given community service. In total, more than $5000 in fines were issued to the activists.
The remaining activists were released on Tuesday evening after being charged with offences including contravening police directions, obstructing traffic, obstructing police and breaching the peace…
One of the group’s ringleaders, Eric Herbert, accused police of lying when they said he had been offered bail, but following checks with the watchhouse and police system, both showed he had been offered bail several times.
It was the sixth time Mr Herbert had been in Brisbane Magistrates Court since June 19 following his repeated involvement in Extinction Rebellion’s previous protests.
He pleaded guilty and was ordered to complete 90 hours of community service. A conviction was recorded.
In a separate protest on Wednesday, Stop Adani activists protested in the foyer of engineering company GHD’s Brisbane office on Ann Street.
The group claim GHD has ties to the Adani mine in north Queensland and were demanding the company cut those ties.
Ten activists were arrested and taken to the Brisbane watchhouse. They were expected to be charged.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/war-of-words-between-activists-police-magistrate-in-brisbane-court-20190807-p52eq6.html
according to Sky’s “Front Page” program, XR are now planning protests for Perth and are demanding Premier Mark McGowan do something or other…
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7 Aug: WeeklyTimes: Letter: Opinion: Solar giants overshadow small towns
by Natalie Akers, Tallygaroopna dairy farmer, with solar proposed on her property’s boundary
Northern Victoria is considered the food bowl of Victoria, but many international solar giants are choosing irrigation land as a cheap and easy location for their solar panels…
But we mustn’t lose sight that much of this irrigation land is also the most fertile and has just undergone a $2 billion irrigation infrastructure upgrade that will set up irrigated agriculture for the next 50-100 years…
The Victorian Government finally released solar guidelines last week that acknowledge the importance of modernised irrigation infrastructure and have established a greater role for water authorities in determining the location of future solar developments.
These guidelines were developed in response to an outcry from the communities of Tallygaroopna, Lemnos and Tatura following applications by international solar giants to develop solar across more than 800ha…
Disappointingly, Minister Wynne has failed to answer whether he will apply these guidelines to the three projects, despite promises in parliament this year that he would.
All three of these proposed sites are on modernised irrigation infrastructure and if evaluated against the newly released guidelines should be rejected. There is no shortage of land in northern Victoria. It is madness to undermine a $2 billion infrastructure project.
It takes a strong Government to stand up to international giants with deep pockets.
All three of these sites have orchards on the boundaries. We cannot find any evidence in the world of solar farms located next to an orchard on the most fertile soil types. They also have dairy farms on other boundaries.
If we applied the UK solar guidelines against these three projects in the Shepparton region, they simply couldn’t be built.
The Tallygaroopna site is less than 2km from the school and township.
I ask Minister Wynne to stand up to these solar giants and not let them dictate the renewable energy agenda…
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-solar-giants-overshadow-small-towns/news-story/ebef52d7230811a1e147cecbb02f5da1
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People of Oz, pay no attention to the diesel generator behind the green curtain! Force each other to vote in rigged elections offering only looter kleptocracy parties!
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“looter kleptocracy parties!”
Hank, what would be great is to have a pictorial flow diagram with Australia at the centre and all of our “contributions” to the kleptocracy shown and itemized.
The MalEx444 incident could be depicted running from Canberra directly to the Great Big Barrier Reef Foundation.
Several large “contributions” to the UNIPCCC and Klinton foundation could be included.
Unfortunately the general public is largely unaware of all this and votes accordingly: and so it continues.
KK
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he tells The Driven that driving to Adelaide and back in an electric car, “I felt like a third class citizen.”
Yeah, a third class citizen that has had $16,000 stuffed into his pockets by mug taxpayers.
Does he think the government bought and paid for the infrastructure that ICE vehicles have been taxed through the nose for.
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But Ve2, he paid maybe $150,000 for his Tesla. Surely you don’t think he could afford to pay for roads, ‘fuel’ etc.
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This is the ultimate micro grid that the ecoloons talk about! No connection to the grid, 100% reliable, what’s the problem? Can’t
be any less polluting than charging from coal, can it? (sarcasm off)
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Here is the calculation for the consumption of diesel: https://thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/?fbclid=IwAR1RyTwGuH32l1ybcBwsJBW5uG06T8x9GBjo8FXEx7VuVcoW2SPJDjgKc_g
Using total kWh added to all cars divided by the total fuel consumed an average kilowatt hour per litre diesel consumed is established – this is 3.392 kWh per litre which is the ChargePod performance.
At $1.40 per litre of diesel that works out the cost of the electricity at 42 cents per KwH. Of course the total cost should include the capital component cost of the generator.
Here is a diesel generator of the type needed. https://barrowsandtrailers.co.uk/gb/9585-canopied-3-phase-diesel-generator-120kva-230v-400v-1500rpm-hyundai-engine.html?gmc_currency=2&gclid=CjwKCAjwyqTqBRAyEiwA8K_4O-EgYC9N1HjABEBEWFMjUwiofpJmOrL5flNlVJMiaN3fleu-bNxQ6xoC6WYQAvD_BwE
Cost GBP 18,000, some some $33,000 plus maintenance and depreciation
Not exactly a cheap source of energy!
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In this brave/dumb new world every home should have one 🙂
After all, diesel generators are the backup for the SA grid.
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And here I thought the whole idea of EVs was to get rid of the horrible polluting fossil fuel, not burn it in a diesel powered generator. Why not just put smaller diesel engines in the cars and let it go at that? Or am I asking a really dumb question? Maybe an even dumber one would be why bother with EVs at all? 🙁
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Don’t worry Roy, so much of modern society works in circles.
The next stage of stupidity will be when the circles get so small that we disappear in a blinding flash of blue light.
Communication these days is so weird that people are no longer in touch with reality, which makes it easy for politicians to enjoy life, safe for another term.
KK
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Circles is it? Well maybe that’s better than just free fall off a cliff. Maybe EVs are just the distraction as we all approach the bottom, something to keep the panic manageable.
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In the ’60s one of my wealthy friends had a “Scalextric” car racing track. Perhaps each Nullabor service station could have 80km of side-track with a pair of electrical pick-up strips. Cars would need banks of graphene ultra capacitors that readily mop up charge as Lithium batteries get a bit warm under high current charging. I remember cowering in the shade of a petrol pump at 7 a.m. after a night ride across there. It was already 30ºC so I can imagine how it would be for a battery.
With the run-away (0.9ºC?) global warming we’ve endured this past century, The Greens could rent one of those Russian ice-breaker ships that have a pair of nuclear reactors on board and park it off the Eucla sand dunes and run a (fat) power cable to the Scalextric track.
On the other hand we could build a gas pipeline from the South Au desert to drive an old Rolls Royce RB211 engine and combined cycle electrical generator but that would be far too straight forward for a Greenie. Having LPG cars would be even simpler. There’s enough gas in the ground to run the place until about 2090.
‘Strialia-the
luckydummy country.10
A bit O/T but a few years ago I rang up a grey nomad type in Perth who drives a Nissan Patrol 4.2 diesel and a big caravan that he’d just been to Tassie with. He reported over 10 km/litre on the Nullabor crossing which is extra-ordinary. My old 4.2 litre Troopie would only do that sort of economy if you dropped it out the back of a Hercules. His secret is a water electrolysis unit made by Gavin Knox, a Perth Uni sciences lecturer. The resultant gasses (H2, O2, H, and O) are added to the air intake. Knox’s V6 Commodor achieves >33% economy tho’ I’ll be unkind and say those are his own figures.
Numbers wise, for every $100 tank of fuel the Tax Office is now losing ~$15 from Knox and the petrol company is losing ~$18. That’s bad for business and bad for the poor old trees too. They need us to release all that CO2 that is locked up in the ground.
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Depends which way the wind is blowing, you can easily halve your consumption with a strong tailwind.
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Did that 108 litres of diesel include the truck that transported the generator and charger?
How many overnight stops did they make.
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The Demand exists already, not far to the North in a Maroccan Solar Thermal Style Electrification of the Indian Pacific Rail line – this could easily provide fourteen tap-offs along the Highway for EV Charging Stations
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Hi Tony,
Gate of Salvation??
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1 litre of diesel is 10kWh of energy. The 2001 audi a2 1,2 manages 24kWh /100km without a heavy battery like a Tesla model S. It’s tiny 21 litre tank carries around 16kg of fuel compared to Tesla 750kg 90D battery pack. It can run on #hvo made from waste not food for massive reduction in emissions and even higher efficiency. The 20 year old tech provides 50% thermodynamic efficiency. Ours is still going strong, same engine, gearbox, exhaust after 28 years and 400,000km of useage. The trouble with today’s cars is #vehicleobesity for a #supersizenesuvconsumerculture.
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That’s 18 years (not 28!) apologies for the typo
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When a barrel of crude oil doesn’t hold enough energy to lift itself up from deep in the underground unassisted, riding on a flying carpet into the refinery and then into the fuel tank of your car, the barrel cannot lift up another barrel of oil to make that magical journey, too.
Yet, our economics, science, academia, industry, politics and the media educate people relentlessly, deceptively and hypnotically that the single barrel can, in fact, lift up not just one but 2, 14 and 20 other barrels – only not itself, though!
The claim is that, yes, a one barrel might not be enough for achieving that, but a million barrel will be more than enough to extract, collect and utilise another 20, 14 or at least another 2 million barrels!
It is this ambiguity systemically injected into the consciousness of humanity since the early steam engine in the 18th Century what has led the world to go extreme today and think autonomous vehicles, solar, wind, nuclear, fusion, hydro, EVs, shale oil, shale gas, Li batteries and others – are green[ish] and save any energy – where they are, actually, no more than gold-grade fossil fuels-derivatives.
Classic EROEI metrics were and are deceptive all along.
“No energy store holds enough energy to extract, collect and utilise an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores”.
“No energy system can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all energy systems [- the sun, fusion, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, autonomous vehicles, EVs, spaceships, and you name it].
Energy, like time, only flows from past to future”.
The Fifth Law of Thermodynamics and The Arrow of Energy, proposed 2017.
https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/press-release?joannenova=AgenSet4everyEV
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[…] The diesel generator behind the electric car charging point It’s becoming a joke all around the world — the EVs in Australia powered by dirty diesel. But what’s the difference? Most EV’s in Australia are running on fossil fuel, the generators are just hidden behind longer extension cords. (Ones that carry 240,000V). EV’s on our grid are running on 80% fossil fuels every day. […]
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The real joke about this entire thing is that the model of BMW shown in the photo has an “extended range” option that provides a gasoline engine that drives only a generator that charges the batteries. In other words, that option provides exactly the same “benefit” that the diesel generator shown provides. The small gasoline engine runs at a constant. most efficient speed (it doesn’t power the wheels, only drives an internal generator) and charges the batteries.
There really no need for this “charging station” when used with the model of car shown in the photo.
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